SELLING OUT

[papasmurf]

first of all, kinsey's JOB(the way to make money) is to be a graphic designer, his HOBBY is street-art.
he did the DC thing as a JOB, not as his street-art.
we have to see the diffrent between these things.

but anyways... isn't the point about doing graffiti/street-art to be recognized and seen?
let the indivudal person choose how he wanna do that.

alot of people accusing shepard fairey for being a sell-out, because of stuff such as having posters in the black eyed peas movie on mtv...
but hey! read his statement from the early 90's were he says that the point of the obey giant campaign is to see how big it can get without paying for the space he's using.
and he did succed... his posters is fucking all over, even on the commercial medias.

for him it's not about being commercial, but to see how big it could get.

anyways... baxck to topic.
let the poeple choose, i do not disrespect anyone that does commercial work for a living or to get up.
let people do they're thing and be supportive...
to much negativism and jealousy caused the death of a great graffiti society, dont let it be the funeral of "street-art" to...........................

no that's commercialization that caused the death of a 'great graffiti society'

ART IS NOT ABOUT MAKING MONEY BUT ABOUT GIVING IMPRESSION.

[papasmurf]

Hey guys, what is bad about earning your life doin' what you like?

Personnally I'm working fo about a year to pay my studies doing some graphic design stuff... and I like it much more than selling french fries in Fast food, even though I'm earning a bit less...

Obviously you don't get my point.
its not about using your skill but sellin your name or fame
get it?

[papasmurf]

AS HE WILL SAY: YA DIG?



Graffiti Prostitutes



There are two types of graffiti prostitutes, of the first and the second kind.

Graffiti Prostitute of the First Kind -

It is the worst of the two kinds. This creature will distort history by selling his / her false soul
to a book author or to a film maker and by lying. Making up stories. Placing himself / herself at
a place in time that really never existed or will ever exist, a 'twilightzonical' situation.

It is the worst of the two types of "g" prostitutes because the film or book in question will remain
as a printed record filled with false data for future generations to also be misled.

Of course, this kind of "g" prostitute carries out this type of behavior for personal, selfish gain.
But in this mythical and self-serving process, the "g" prostitute of the first kind hurts the accuracy
of historical data on Aerosol Art.

The damage is worst if the book or movie in question really takes off and is very successful
in the public domain. Obviously, the more people who see or read this prostitute's garbage,
the greater the number of people who are at risk of being misled and misinformed, such
as it is the case of a lot of people in Europe who became aware of "graffiti" through Hip Hop,
and therefore, have been misled to believe the nonsense that "graffiti is one of the four elements
of Hip Hop." This suggestion is just as ludicrous as the suggestion that the U.S. gov't did not create Osama
and Sadamm and Batista, and Pinochet, and Noriega, and on and on...

Modern aerosol Writing as we know it, was started in Philadelphia and NYC in the late '60s -
early '70s. Hip Hop was started in the late '70s. In this case, the chicken absolutely, positively
did not come before the egg. Instead, it was the other way around.




Graffiti Prostitute of the Second Kind -

This kind of graffiti prostitute is the one who sells his / her "tag" to be featured on anything
and everything from condoms to jeans to skate boards to toilet paper, in order to make a few
chump dollars.

This poor creature is just that - poor, and must earn some chump change somehow in order
to survive. This is the kind of graffiti prostitute who labels himself or herself an
"entrepreneur." The same kind who will sell his/her "tag" for a few dollars @ eBay. Who knows,
with the advances in technology, it may be appropriate today to refer to this creature as
a 'cyber-graffiti prostitute.'

At times, this kind of graffiti prostitute will try to convince a bona fide Writing pioneer from
the real Old School of NYC Writing, to join him/her @ eBay for example, in an attempt to ride
the historical coattails of the legitimate Old School Writer.

Today, the majority of the public who visit eBay and are not familiar with the true history of
NYC Writing, run the risk of being further misled into believing a "g" prostitute's false "historical"
hype such as, "Yo!, I started 'bombing' in the early '70s." If the public sees, for example,
this "g" prostitute's tag alongside a "Stay High 149" signature being auctioned off for a few
chump dollars, the public has very little choice but to believe that the "g" prostitute is indeed a
"pioneer" and a "legend."

Although a graffiti prostitute of the second kind has the unethical qualifications to lie
about his / her place in time in the history of Aerosol Art, his / her behavior is not as
damaging to the history of Aerosol Art as a graffiti prostitute of the first kind's is,
but nevertheless, will sell all rights to his / her name without regard for where it may be
printed and how often it may be printed, therefore, truly losing out on the full benefit
of residual income. Some "entrepreneur," a true loser!



Copyright © 2000, 2002 JJ. MICO Ramirez





Aerosol Art vs. Graffiti

[g]

no comment and big up to TLP !

[Flash Boï]

[superfly]

I'm not surprised at all by The London Police giving their work to make cheap and ugly shoes nobody would wear.
Some of their work is not even real. Their basketball playground published on Art Of Rebellion and seen on various places is a fake done with Photoshop.

Just like Freaklub and other people, they do street work because they certainly enjoy it, but above all because it is a easy way to make a name to make money.

Fuck that !

[captainrouget]

... bah if a brand of beer contact me to make something out..Be sure i'd apply ! : )

[eko]

... bah if a brand of beer contact me to make something out..Be sure i'd apply ! : )

Yeah something for them :

[DIYorDIE]

i'm really happy that this poll received so much consideration…

I'm so happy too for the hypocrite bastards to shut up!!

I'm really happy today!!

Today is a gout-dé!!! huhuhuhuhuhu

[deadmeat]

to be real doesn't mean to do something other people would like you to do!!

BE REAL TO YOURSELF, FUCK WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE THINK.
FUCK PEOPLE THAT'S TRYING TO TELL YOU HOW YOU SHOULD DO YOUR THING!

thats the stupidity about punkers, anarchists and extremists.
they're against rules, but they're still one of those groups that got the most fucking rules out there.
"dont be like everyone else", "dont eat hamburgers from macdonalds", "dont wear brands", "dont do this", "dont do that".

todays anarchists aint against rules, they're against everyhting else than what they're doing them self!
and because of that they rank themself as better persons than other people. it's so fucking ludacris.

and thats not to be real in my eyes...

[deadmeat]

the respect of other people is so much more important than not eating at macdonalds.


and i'm not speaking for myself.
i dont eat at macdonalds, i vote for the very very leftside, i demonstrates against g8 and wto and i am political interested.

but i do not think i'm better than anyone else for being diffrent from them.

respect others and be real to your self.
not to some fucking jealous punk.

[g]

an other example :
the commercial side isn't only attributed to neo-street-art-activists...

the evidence below with a Miss Tic work for a car rent company...
" Louer c'est rester libre " means " Rent it's being free "



and the press release

http://www.ucar-location.com/pdf/ECHOS_19014_18_14.pdf

[dav]

thats the stupidity about punkers, anarchists and extremists.
they're against rules, but they're still one of those groups that got the most fucking rules out there.
"dont be like everyone else", "dont eat hamburgers from macdonalds", "dont wear brands", "dont do this", "dont do that".

todays anarchists aint against rules, they're against everyhting else than what they're doing them self!

I not sure you have seen the right persons!
for sure lots of people (including leftish people) have dogms & rules but if you're in minority you have always to fight the commun attitude/minds... it's simply logic. the sytem as at least the same level of fucking rules but as we lives with thoses rules, traditions etc since our childhood we don't see this as rules, but as normal/only ways.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they're free" (J. Von Goethe)

About the anarchists it's not only "todays"! it's the proper sense of anarchism!!!

it's logic that punks & anarchists are always angry against the society because they always see this crappy system getting 1984 more and more... yes they aren't happy people because they see all this shit and fell powerless ... now the big part of the occidental people is bought by the system as consumers (me too !).

in the past times it's hunger that give people the energy to start revolutions ("still hungry, still angry!") so who want to change now the order and possibly loose is quiet life(and artificial happiness= buying the new cd, viewing the new movie... our idea of happiness is very dependent of consuming, there's always a new thing that we dream to buy, it's an addiction, a vicious circle*)?!

Crass (real punx) now living in a free community in england doing their own vegetables & stuff like that... i think the only way to do revolution now it's to do revolution in your own life: to cut the navel string as possible as it could with the society. If you lives in this society you're more or less slave of your false needs (created and kept by adverstising etc.)
...so i think real punks goes hippies!


*my ideal is to broke this circle for me but as i always lived in this system i'm so very secure of doing that... i'm dealing with my quiet half-freedom.
Why braking with the society? because this consumption addiction make us nearly always "hungry"(of new goods) so never completly happy.
The real happyness is sleeping, doing nothing(just simple things: just eat, drink, make love )... if we observe animals , we see that they knows that .
[/b]

[dav]

the commercial side isn't only attributed to neo-street-art-activists

yes, for sure.
This isn't the point where i'm focused : there's a difference with starting something as game (invader, miss tic, andre...) and that it become finally a sort of job in a timeline and starting something in streets as a part of your career as graphist/artdesigner/contemporary artist.
(I could be interesting to see how many people here are art school students... when you're in a art art school it means you want to make art your job ... and so i naturally means that you have to do commercials to live. it's not an "art of rebellion*"!)

i know it's not b&w, lots of people mix the 2 things...

it's not a critic, just an analysis, ok?!
i enjoy a lot illustrations, paintings, comics etc. and so a big part of the post-graffiti scene is the same... so i enjoy lots of those illustrators who use streets to show their stuff but i don't want to glorify this only because it's pasted in streets... seems to be more romantic but it's really?!



*this title make a confusion i think...

[g]

it's not an "art of rebellion*"!) *this title make a confusion i think...

Ya u're right ..... something like :

" ART OF BABYLON " would be better

[dav]

yeah and "the art of rebellion" isn't the best record of Suicidal Tendencies! ...but it will be worse with a title like "lights, camera, revolution" or "join the army"

*my ideal is to broke this circle for me but as i always lived in this system i'm NOT so very secure of doing that... i'm dealing with my quiet half-freedom.

oups!

The real happyness is sleeping, doing nothing(just simple things: just eat, drink, make love )... if we observe animals , we see that they knows that

so take care: if you're dog want to buy a cd or use spend time at videogames it's certainly NOT your real dog, it's might be an Aibo(tm) !

[El Reos]

Well.. i've been reading all the replies, and boths sides have valid arguments... im just not feeling DeadMeat's answers, cuz he has already started calling people who dont agree with him "stupid", keep it cool man !!! ...

From what i've been reading, people who have no problem with selling their "street work" to corporations (big or small, its not really the point here) consider themselves artists, people who want to make a living making art. Myself, i dont consider me an artist... i have no intention on becoming one, every now and then i pull out some good shit, but that's it... what got me into wheatpasting was the "anti-pub" thing, fightin my little battle against publicity and therefore against brands that sell you "coolness" and "hip"...

now, wheatpasting its the "hip" thing, and the merchants want to sell it to the new kid's generation... and they are looking for the "hippest" street artists to design their products...

If you are a designer or an artist and its your goal to sell your artistic works to make a living, well then go ahead... i dont agree with it, but i respect it... in some way ... because, i dont care if you started in the streets "back in the day" when im out pasting ill go over your soda/beer/shoe/whatever billboard with my shit... even if it's a supercool ad by OBEY or TLP, it's still and ad and i dont want it on my streets.

p.s. The only people who deserve NO FUCKING RESPECT are the artists that have no street work whatsoever, and go out pasting just to get "street credentials" and become "cool and hip"... FUCK THEM!

[deadmeat]

el reos: i dont call the others idiots.
i call the topic's poll idiotic and i think alot of anarchists out there are actiong very foolish.


i respect people that respect people.
even if they dont think the same or got the same point of views as me...

im cool... cooler than icecold.

[TTTF]

I used to try to live ethically correctly, boycott companies and do this and that...eat vegetarian and all that. I still think its ok, I never pushed it on others however I was pissed off every single day, stressing for some stuff that I cant affect in any way. I still get pissed off like you see: I hope I was an autist or a retard happily drooling until I die. I've gotten really fed up with the humanity, politics etc. it's all pointless as long as someone is fucking around in the big companies. And the most pointless thing is to point fingers at consumers! their consuming isn't against law. you should do something to the society and the law, make it cheaper to eat ethically, make more vegetarian gourmet food available in markets, make it illegal to produce goods in countries where are no human rights. it's a cultural change, not a preachy moral crusade!!!

Like seen here, individuals are intelligent and reasonable, ready to compromise, able to good discussion. this thread is sort of like ultimate example of solidarity. however masses and even small fundamental groups are so fucking stupid it makes me physically sick. they can't think straight or make relative descisions. old finnish phrase says: the more there are cooks, the worse the soup will be. That's true in my book as this world is over populated, politiced, religionized and terrorized. I've lost hope with all these people thinking the "right way"

"no that's wrong, this is better, you are wrong"

fuck that, there is no right or wrong. there is just a piece of shit planet floating in emptyness with stupid people onboard

just take a look at any global conflict zone: cheznya, palestine... dumb fucks attack another country and dumb fucks in chechnya start killing and decapitating russian soldiers! is that going to end a war? Killing enlisted 18 year old boys who never fired a rifle and cut off their dicks and stuff them in their mouth? and now that there are hardly enough chechen men alive to support guerrillas, most of them come from another countries like saudi arabia. norman chechen citizens don't need those roadside bombs. And I'm not gonna start with the russians and their stupid oil war in the caucasia. Paying kontraktviki and speznaz madmen just to roll around in apcs shooting civilians. Then palestine: sharon orders a muslim leader to be killed by helicopters! that's gonna end the violence?? and palestinian fuckers revenging at enlisted troops who would go to jail if they weren't on their roadposts. and dumb palestinians throwing stones at tanks??? since when has stones been considered anti tank weapons? suicide bombs... sheesh

Jus in case if someone wondered I am DEFINATELY not taking sides here, just pointing out that when it comes down to violence, everyone is a loser and people become ultimately stupid. Stay away from that shit, because it spreads like a plague and it will be remembered forever. culture is a powerful thing and when a nation is at war, the culture is wrapped around violence, suffering and revenge. culture makes sure there is always next generation of hate growing up.


I am sorry i got so carried away but now you see why I usually don't bring up subjects like politics. I like to have as fun as possible and respect anyone with an honest view of life and will to accept other people. sometimes just thinking too much makes you feel bad

peace

[70's Kid]

- KINSEY making shoes for DC

i wouldn't consider working for a company like DC "selling out". those fuckers are real deal hollyfield. been down for skating since the days the skate industry was in the toilet.