BACKJUMPS, THE LIVE ISSUE #2, BERLIN

Postby ///EROSIE/// » September 1st, 2005, 9:12 am

I agree...but we all have websites and we're all visually addicted to seeing stuff printed it seems. Both me and you, TerrorStaak.

I think the "problem" lies in this: we have become a sort of stamp-collectors, and we all have a similar collection of stamps, the one has a bit more rare stamps than the other, and feels "higher" in rank, but it's so much about images, not about for instance content!

We saw the "logo as a name" phase...the moment is here (already) to think about something else...it became a purely visual thing...who doesn't have a "funny" image on a sticker nowadays?
But try to make a funny image with content...or a personal view. Try to make a statement that goes further than a hollow fashion-victim's cry.

It's all about trying to make GOOD stuff, that not only 15 year old stickerpasters like...

If you care ofcourse. We can always "go back" to just bombing and not giving a fuck. Nothing wrong with that i think...but if this "movement" and it's artists want to grow, it's "personality" needs to grow as well: It seems for the big part that the street-art movement is in a puberty-phase itself. It's very unsure about his future and his own identity...and focusses on superficial images to cover up his insecurity. Just like 15 year old kids do.

We should not only need our eyes to grow i think, but also our brains...and balls :shock:
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Postby ///EROSIE/// » September 1st, 2005, 9:13 am

Sorry G...i posted in the same time haha! :D
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Postby g » September 1st, 2005, 9:46 am

:wink:

a growing-up needs, as Darwin wrote for the life, all sort of adaptation.

While reading Art History, each mouvement get a special intellectualism with
some texts written by philsophs, arts students, journalists...
about the goal, the meaning, the wishes of the specific mouvement...
( > think to DADA, Fluxus, COBRA, etc..... )

but the "street-art" mouvement seems to drown itself in a 100% images/pictures world...where only a few are still able to write something else than their names or a simple slogan....(cf. Influenza Memorials)
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some more quick thought

Postby d'invluensko » September 1st, 2005, 10:05 am

but the weird case with graffiti related artexhibitions as this is that some artists keep refering to the attitude of streetactions where they don't actually practice anymore what they preach themselves.
somehow it becomes just a dead language they use, empty play with aestetics or nice but simple illustrations reffering to works of other people outside..if you got my drift.

in the backjumpsexhibit. so many people in the show, that there are some funny examples to give ofcourse. in random.
like the stuff going on in the room with jon one and neon. jon one made a big decorative wallpaper-style painting and neon made some typographic gadgets (toys) he displayed as demo's to sell. or the room with delta, mode2 and futura.. damn! that was a nasty one!
i think the work of lokiss was quite successful in its approach cause he made an independant videoinstallation that refered to some total different things then the style of writing -in fact his video's are more about the fuckedup mind of the writer himself. with the first backjumps i was also a big fan of the video pike and nug showed (fucking up a subwaystation in an epileptic manner with just one black spraycan-or a stealing and drinking-act on the backside of a train), but for one boring reason they simply showed the same work again. quite a disapointment cause i was really curious about new stuff from them.

okay, more later
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Postby CRE » September 1st, 2005, 10:16 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: les jalous sont partouuuuuuuuu... hou hou houuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu...

cé le nouvo titreu de ma chansson pour la staracademy25 !!!
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Postby d'invluensko » September 1st, 2005, 10:16 am

shit, you guys type fast!

the keything for me is the question, what is the sence of showing stuff 'indoors'. and next, how it relates to 'outdoors'.
its the exact same problem we have now as they had in the 60's with landart. walking from one point to another, documenting it somehow in a right wayand show it in a gallery.

its the how and why we have to ask ourselves all the time.
what is the point of showing it -besides using (/abusing) every exhibition as a flat possibility to show what you have to sell.

with graffitirelated exhibitions i suppose the thing to show is the relation to the streets /to graffiti /its behaviour etc.
its important to show the differences between graff-stuff and 'normal' painting-art etc.
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Postby ///EROSIE/// » September 1st, 2005, 10:18 am

True that...it sounds disappointing! Delta, mode2 and futura did in my eyes (as much as i can see from behind my screen) not the best thing imaginable...As if they didn't do their thing for a long while. And they fucking used to rock!

It's interesting to see what people make, and how it refers to their past/present. Like you say a dead language, or a new adapted language... The problem is ofcourse the context. Why is a piece nice on a wall, pretty random in a magazine (using a computer to do it), and completely boring on a gallery-wall?
It seems because of not adapting to a new situation? A different audience? Different standards? Progressing the approach?

Just doing that same old thing...due to big succes. Makes it less and less succesful...

Damn...it's difficult... :wink:
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Postby g » September 1st, 2005, 10:29 am

d'invluensko wrote:with graffitirelated exhibitions i suppose the thing to show is the relation to the streets /to graffiti /its behaviour etc.
its important to show the differences between graff-stuff and 'normal' painting-art etc.


according to myself...
only a few artist succeed in this way..
it's clear, clever and push the public to know " why, how, what.."

> Image
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Postby d'invluensko » September 1st, 2005, 10:52 am

not difficult, just puzzling -its fun infact, to play with the shift in context and all that..if you like to puzzle i mean.
but important to be aware though. "the art of exhibiting".
for me anyway its the question what to show to an audience (in an artspace) -what to show them about what is relevant about the street-thing, and at the same time why its nescessary to see it dislocated in an artspace.
(sorry for the open doors kicked in)
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Postby d'invluensko » September 1st, 2005, 10:52 am

indeed
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Postby d'invluensko » September 1st, 2005, 10:56 am

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Postby g » September 1st, 2005, 11:00 am

...
perhaps this kind of "postgraffitistreetart" shows are too much a good
support for a brand promotion
...

> http://www.swatchurban.com/
> http://www.dieselwall.com/
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Postby ///EROSIE/// » September 1st, 2005, 11:02 am

Aha! Hmm..wel difficult I mean it is indeed difficult to do the puzzle...in an interesting way.
Also I think there is not THE way to do it...sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't...right? So it need in that sense balls to try and make it work. To try and "kill your darlings"as you put it. But also to translate it in a useful way.

The first Backjumps-show was a good attempt to mix fields, art mixed with graffiti, mixed with fashion and streetartstuff...about this show I'm not sure since I wasn't there to fully experience it...but what makes it a better or not better show than the first one? How is it possible to get the most out of participating artists? The curation? What would be an interesting way to progress?
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Postby d'invluensko » September 1st, 2005, 11:25 am

[quote="g"]...
perhaps this kind of "postgraffitistreetart" shows are too much a good
support for a brand promotion
...

ofcourse most of these shows are overloaded with 'the commercial' - that is surely the weak spot in our field. the hunger wins it always from the experiment -greed over patience etc.
in this backjumps i think they tried to keep that a bit outdoors -the commercial links - but they didnt get in more experimental working people or debat to feed the discourse.
nike is one of the sponsors of the event but adrian nabi managed to get the logo's etc. away from the whole thing, not it interfer with the meaning of the works of the artists. also the artists themselves where not to commercially focused this time. (even the expo-show is almost empty. just some of the always available tshirts en some books)

but on the other hand, if you organise a show in a way its silly to invite only people that once touched a spraycan, where there are so many good artists that do stuff outdoors-most of the time even better- but don't care about this little personal histories. check for example the works francis alys did.

okay, gotta eat. more later
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Postby g » September 1st, 2005, 11:46 am

damn right...
need money to invite in a certain confort artists..
but commercials organization aren't the only ones who got money..
it's a pity that classic institutions as famous gallery, culture center or musuems are not able to put some interest on our mouvement...
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rightly!!!!

Postby mc1984 » September 1st, 2005, 12:16 pm

cause contemporary art institutions say
"street art is only territory fights,
tags and graffitis are vandalism, only anti-middle class movement"

but u could see a pict of "Space Invaders"
in ART press this month...

what's a pity CatHERINE miLLet!!!
they are late all the time...
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Postby d'invluensko » September 1st, 2005, 12:36 pm

g wrote:damn right...
need money to invite in a certain confort artists..
but commercials organization aren't the only ones who got money..
it's a pity that classic institutions as famous gallery, culture center or musuems are not able to put some interest on our mouvement...


i participated in a project last week in lithuania-in a town called alytus.
cause all the money goes to vilnius (the capital) there isn't anything possible in other places in the country anymore. so this artist called redas dirzys made up the plan to organise a biennale -just asif its possible to do something like that there.. ofcourse its all about fighting windmills.

http://www.alytusbiennial.com/

it was impossible to get ANY money from anyone. just some local sponsors. Since there isn't any artcentre or gallery or what soever there wasnt any infrastructure for this kind of events exept for the channels and contacts redas has himself as artist. anyway, he managed to pull of a project that took only place in public space -all sorts of weird interventions that put the town upside-down and kept the media buzzy fro weeks.
again: no money at all- no subsidygivers -national or international- where interested to put money it a 'provicial project' as that blabla. sponsorship came from the local hotel -the local pizzaplace for food -a local friendly printer, and some artists managed to get their own money from their own local/national channels.

i my case, i got my own money printed through a friend from germany and one from alytus doing the coins.
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Postby ///EROSIE/// » September 1st, 2005, 1:09 pm

Sounds super...and the advantage probably was: NO SNOBBISH POST-GRAFFITI-PEOPLE! Phew... :D

I'm very curious to see some photos or hear some stories.

About mc1984's comment:

but u could see a pict of "Space Invaders"
in ART press this month...

This is apart from a good thing ( also for space invader) also a sad thing... It's great to see publicity about people from the "street-movement" but mostly it comes down to just a couple of people...succesful people, but to me it seems a lot of people in our "field" that are succesful, are not always the most interesting examples of what there is to see. Not that I don't like the work of space-invader, but after years of repetition ( like for instance Obey ) it seems to be more about "branding" than about art. So isn't it so that exactly that is how it's seen through the art-eyes?
In that sense we're digging our own grave by focussing so much on the visuals...especially when people have art-ambitions this seems to be not enough, and in the end "streetart" seems to be just a gimmick.
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duno if this works.. damn i bad in this stuff

Postby d'invluensko » September 1st, 2005, 1:19 pm

Image

Image
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Postby g » September 1st, 2005, 1:42 pm

:lol:
so far than a "no budget" aerosol graffiti
and so close to the core of the truth.
In one word : BRAVO !!

ps : why did you have such an admiration for " pissotière " / toilets ?
A Marcel Duchamp syndrom ?

...
according to your East Art Biennal
it were terrific to see more but at this time
only by reading their manifesto
my heart becomes warmer
> http://www.daile.alytus.lm.lt/philosophy.html

(specially like the Art Bureaucracy one)
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